Ukrainian President: We Won’t Let Russia Add Us to Its Hit List | Poland signs ABM Deal
August 24th, 2008 . by JetmanDo you think the previous vassal states of the USSR are sending a message?
After a great discussion with two Ukrainians (one native, one expat US) a few months ago, I started researching how this schism between the USA and Russia began.
As far as I recall, it was right about the time we decided to take down Iraq. I heard some chatter in 2003 through my sources about the Ruskies working as contractors waiting until the tanks were rolling through Bagdhad to evacuate. I also heard rumors of Russian convoys being taken down. Not taken OUT - taken down. Crippled. In the middle of the desert. Searched. People positively identified. That sort of thing.
Obviously with the Food for Oil issue and the Iraqi arms embargo blatantly being violated by Russian and French business Operation Iraqi Freedom became a sticking point for the US/Russian relationship. Russia was/is upset with us for killing the goose that was laying the golden eggs for so long. Saddam was paying in great amounts for what would have gone for much cheaper on the open market.
Maybe that’s what prompted Bush to say he looked into Putin’s soul. Oh by the way, there’s always this: Former Russian Spy Says Government Stole $500 Million From U.N.’s Oil-For-Food Program in Iraq
An 18-month investigation into the oil-for-food corruption, led by former Federal Reserve chairman Paul Volcker, culminated in an October 2005 report accusing more than 2,200 companies from some 40 countries of colluding with Saddam’s regime to bilk the humanitarian program in Iraq of $1.8 billion
I look into those heavy lidded and expressionless eyes of Putin’s and say… KGB. Snake. Reptile. Ruthless. Predator. And rich. Have you seen how much natural gas pipeline Russia now controls?!? EU look out.
Poland and the Ukraine ponied up the cojones to back our play with Afghanistan and Iraq, becoming very important partners in the GWOT. FOXNews.com - Ukrainian President: We Won’t Let Russia Add Us to Its Hit List -
Russians form a strong minority in Ukraine, about 17 percent of the population, and could become a flashpoint in any future confrontation with Moscow.
“Ukraine has to move towards the NATO alliance,” Yushchenko said, drumming up support before the NATO summit in December.
“It is the only way for our country to protect our national security and sovereignty. When the borders of NATO expand, so too does the region of peace and stability.”
The defense budget of Ukraine — as in other nervous Central European states — is to be raised immediately. “I want to remind all political forces in our country that shout about the possible neutral status of Ukraine that neutrality can come at a very high price,” he said, casting a nod at pro-Moscow politicians.
I digress. Basically my understanding after many beers, glasses of wine, and great conversation overlooking one of the best rooftop views of Pacific Beach I discovered that Ukraine opinion is virtually split down the middle about support for NATO.
The eastern side of the Ukraine is more economically tied to Russia, and doesn’t want to piss them off. They have more cultural ties and really don’t like the current leadership.
The western side holds an opposite opinion.
Russia Threatens Military Response if U.S., Poland Follow Through With Missile Defense Deal
Not like that really concerned Condi:
“In troubled times the most important thing is to have friends,” Rice said. “But it is more important to have friends who share your values and your aspirations and your dreams. And Poland and the United States are those kind of friends.”
…
She denounced an earlier threat from a Russian general to target NATO member Poland, possibly even with nuclear weapons, for accepting the facility.
Such comments “border on the bizarre, frankly,” Rice told reporters in Warsaw. “The Russians are losing their credibility,” she said, adding that Moscow would pay a price for its actions in Georgia, though she did not specify how.
“It’s also the case that when you threaten Poland, you perhaps forget that it is not 1988,” Rice said. “It’s 2008 and the United States has a … firm treaty guarantee to defend Poland’s territory as if it was the territory of the United States. So it’s probably not wise to throw these threats around.”
Couldn’t have said it better myself and I don’t think Colin Powell could have conveyed as well either.
Update: Add Czech Republic to that list:
“Almost immediately after the Czech Republic signed an agreement with the US to place missile defense tracking radar in its territory, oil supplies through the Druzhba pipeline to the central European country were reduced to a trickle… ostensibly for technical reasons,” Sabathier said.
Update: Czech petrochem Unipetrol Q2 net profit down 80% y/y, worse than expected
Russia in early July reduced supplies of oil through the Druzhba from an agreed 500,000 tonnes to 300,000 tonnes, but said the volume would return to normal levels in August. At first citing technical problems, the pipeline operator later said it had diverted supplies to Turkey, where it could fetch a higher price.
However, Poland did come through for the Czech Republic:
Unipetrol, a unit of Poland’s PKN Orlen group, had to buy Russian oil for its refineries from tankers and transport it through Germany to the Czech Republic via the IKL pipelines; the company also bought oil from Czech state reserves, expenses that will affect Q3 results.
Nothing like a manufactured crisis to bring oil prices absolutely sky-high. Thanks most probably to Putin’s machine.
The Ukrainian President is yet another ‘unsophisticated’ leader trying to get cash by ‘crying wolf’ or the ‘Russians are coming’. It’s amusing to see that Russia used its official, legitimate and UN sanctioned peacekeeping force within 8 hours of the attack on South Assetia to squelch the problem. From a military perspective a mobilization at that rate is impressive. On top Russia got away with a diplomatic win. One has to give this some respect and concern; results are results.
These ‘unsophisticated’ leaders are looking for assistance from NATO who took 1 month to meet over South Assetia. At that rate it would take a decade to mount a counterattack. NATO is a discussion club for the lack of a better word. The ‘North Atlantic’ doesn’t stretch to the Caspian Sea. US tax money (1 billion) is sent to Georgia to ‘help’. I care more about our disabled vets; anyone thinking this investment is good should visit Georgia and reassess.
An ‘unsophisticated’ leader can sure start a war but can hardly can he be expected to finish one. Will NATO care to practically guarantee WWIII ? The US has plenty of brainpower and doesn’t need to flex its military muscle. These wars can be won at home not overseas. Remove our energy dependence from countries who will never, ever like the US – that’s all it takes - even if it causes limited hardship in Houtson TX, it could be worth the effort.
Trying to introduce ‘democracy’ to people who would never score better than a ‘D minus ‘in citizenship is as futile as the exercise to make them wealthy by buying their energy products. Politics in Eastern Europe are influenced by the EU’s desire to control the ‘riches to the East’ since the EU is historically broke. Hadn’t it been for US efforts last century, there wouldn’t be an EU. More than 60% of all Ukrainians are against NATO membership and don’t like the EU. They are decent people and not scared of Russia who they have historical ties with. An inconvenient situation for the president of that country because it’s bad business for lining pockets, begging for cash and excusing problems with gas pipelines. Most people have no problems sending off ‘panhandlers’, why do politicians have such a difficulty with it?
There’s far spread disappointment that some of these countries to the East are neither stupid, poor nor defenseless. Russia isn’t feeble and corrupt to the point it would give away their natural resources so international corporations can turn them into the ’Nigeria of Siberia’. NATO never will act without bankroll from the US but the US can never rely on NATO allies for military support. (Compare US and coalition fatalities since WWII in any conflict) Continuing to deal with Russia without acknowledging that the soviet times are over and a new understanding must be found is likewise dumb and ignorant at the same time. Any Cold War rhetoric can safely be discarded as it has become obsolete and redundant.
Before getting in the position to pay for and then clean up messes created by people how have no business to start wars, wouldn’t it be more effective to remove the basis that enables these countries in the first place I.E. oil & gas? Making these resources obsolete will avoid WWIII, save US lives, bring peace and whatever the world is capable of experiencing in terms of democracy (a legacy system to some and overrate by many).
Fighting an enemy successful is strongly supported by weakening their supply line and their base of attack at the same time. Take a look at the greater Middle East and draw a conclusion!
Wow! Great comment, Peer.
I think it’s important to support democracy, but the formal way to remove a leader who’s misusing power in democracy is through impeachment.
Impeachment with Georgia is something I’m researching as well.
The other issue I’m researching is whether or not Georgian soldiers are to blame for 2000 deaths, along with what this ‘irregular’ army of South Ossetia may have done to citizens. On the surface it appears that the war may have been a great cover for selective weeding of South Ossetian dissent - this is a tactic that can provide a lot of fear.
To find out more about this, investigators need to ask WHO was killed, WHY they were killed, and WHAT social responsibilities and WHAT political viewpoints they were dealing with.
I also think that providing more oil and energy to the US is critical, but it doesn’t remove the EU’s dependence, which will continue well into this century. Poland’s energy prices are right now being manipulated by Russia.
Without subsidizing fledgling democracies - Iraq, Poland, and Georgia’s reconstruction, these democracies will fail. There needs to be a recognition of the value of a liberal democracy; these countries never start wars with each other. What happened in Georgia is still unclear, but it appears to be a poorly structured response to border skirmishing and over the border raiding.
WaPo article states the same stuff I’m thinking: “According to witnesses, the Ossetian militias began widespread looting. “They ask for access to the house, and if there’s any protestations, they shoot them at the door,” said Marcus Bleasdale, a freelance photographer who has traveled to villages in recent days, adding that he had seen several bodies in doorways.”
…
” While Ossetian residents reported sporadic instances of looting by Georgian soldiers — a DVD player here, an electric shaver there — there were few reports of violence, and most deaths among Ossetians seem to have been caused by shelling.
“Nobody told us about any mistreatment, any cruelty by the Georgians as they entered the houses,” said Anna Neistat, a senior emergencies researcher for Human Rights Watch, who spent several days interviewing witnesses in South Ossetia and Russia.